In the fifth episode of the ‘Psychology & The Cross’ podcast, we meet with Bernard Sartorius. Bernard is a Jungian Analyst based in Zurich and a scholar of Islamic Studies. In this episode, we’re investigating individuation and Islamic faith, in relation to Christianity. We discuss psychological agnosticism, religious fundamentalism, and Jung’s difficulties with surrendering. How Jung, in the context of a dream shared in the biography ‘Memories, dreams, reflections’, grapples with bowing in front of the mystery.